Discussion Forum>

1/4800s -- Need new sets! :-)

Anonymous Guest Nov 22, 2003 10:34 AM	CinC's 1/4800s are unique to the hobby: exquisitely -- indeed, microscopically -- detailed and ideal for tabletop play. The Hallmark 1/6000s are junk by comparison ... especially with their "bases." CinC has this market CORNERED. WHY aren't you expanding it? We need the Italians -- Hoffa is Italian, isn't it?? :-) -- to accompany the Germans and British, and more British -- specifically, the WARSPITE variants, YORK, EXETER, etc. Then, there is always the Pacific. I'm still dying of envy because Randy gave Jim Xxxx (from back in Juneau, Alaska) a test-shoot 1/4800 Japanese heavy cruiser! :-I :-) Come ON, guys. Give your REAL market what we want! :-) Lou Coatney, Macomb, Illinois http://LCoat.tripod.com
Maserati 1 post Nov 22, 2003 12:03 PM	I agree with the Guest comment. I'm prepared to buy C-in-C's Italian, American and Japanese in 1:4800 as they become available.
Pfc - C in C 36 posts Nov 22, 2003 1:39 PM	Hi all, Brad here: We're very aware of the desire for more 1:4800 ships. Randy actually has a couple of partially completed units in mid-sculpt. Once the "rebuilding" of the existing inventory molds is completed, he should have more time to spend on getting new units done. I feel like I've been saying "wait, be patient" forever, but it's really true. We've made great progress in the last 10 months getting a significant number of new molds made and many items returned to stock. Randy was rather amazed at the condition he found many of the molds in after having his employees cast for several years as he just made new items. It turns out they were not pulling bad ones out to be remade, rather just muddling through as best they could. Remember, right now C in C is essentially a 1.5 person company as I only do the online stuff as an evening gig. Randy handles all the production, packaging and mold-making right now, so its a big job for just one guy. If things continue according to plan, we'll be putting someone on to do the casting production which will free up Randy to concentrate on more design work. Brad Last Edited Pfc - C in C on 22-Nov-2003 1:42 PM
brian_gs 2 posts Nov 22, 2003 11:22 PM	Just to let you know...we'll be here to start buying them when you get around to them. I know you're a small operation, but I want you to know you've already got a customer when you get around to it!! To throw in my personal wants: I'd love to see some WWII Pacific....but Modern...oooh...if you came out with 1/4800 modern I'd probably have to sign over several paychecks!! Good Luck & Best Wishes!
Anonymous Guest Nov 23, 2003 3:33 AM	In Jan03 I posted the following on NavWarGames: One really neat thing about the CinC 1:4800s is that they sell them in balanced task force sets: you don't have to spend an arm and a leg just to get multiple classes. If Randy and Brad are doing new sets, we might recommend the classes to go into them. As much as people may want the Pacific, I'd suggest that (after finishing the Pacific sets already started) CinC do the Italians ... and another British ... since they've already got most of the Royal Navy, anway, and I'd like to suggest 3 Italian and 1 British sets: 1. Littorio BB, Zara CA, D'Abruzzi CL (10-6"), Capitani DL (8-5.3"), 2 Navigatori DDs, 3 Soldati I DDs, 1 Soldati II DD 2. Duilio B, Cesare B, Trieste CA, Savoia CL, Attendolo CL, 3 Navigatori DDs, 2 Alfieri DDs, 1 Soldati 1 DD 3. Pola CA, Bolzano CA, San Giorgio CA, Cadorna CL, 2 Barbiano CLs, 2 Navigatori DDs, 2 Dardo DDs, 3 Spica TBs 4. Barham B, Q. Elizabeth B, Warspite B, York CA, Dido CLAA, SYDNEY CL, 3 E-class DD, 2 I-class DD] Buying 2 of each of the first 2 sets would give miniaturists almost the entire Italian fleet. Lou Coatney http://LCoat.tripod.com
Pfc - C in C 37 posts Nov 23, 2003 9:03 AM	Lou: I'll pass that list onto Randy for a bit of reference.. perhaps it can guide his decisions on what to attack next. Brad
Anonymous Guest Nov 24, 2003 12:41 AM	Thanks, Brad. Regards to Randy. :-)
Aethulred 2 posts Dec 22, 2003 8:52 AM	I think before startying out on the Italians, we need HMS ARK ROYAL and HMS GLORIOUS to do the early battles off Norway. Both also spent time in the Med, so they are somewhat dual purpose. The other RN and Italian ships would also be welcome, and I concur with Lou, that by starting there and expanding with ships usable in more than one theater, this could be a Great Line. The USN contributed a few ships to the North Atlantic and the Med, giving a small start before undertaking the ships of the Pacific. Jim O'Neil
CBW 2 posts Dec 23, 2003 12:39 AM	The last items that I have bought from CinC were a set of 1:4800's for a friend. He had some of the 1:3000 and 1:6000 stuff and was thrilled. That was back when things were going bad. He was really looking forward to new stuff from CinC in the scale but alass he had a change in fortune. His new wife said it was between his hobbies and diapers, his choice. Xourse she also said she would use his shirts as intrims if need be. I have multiple sets of each except as, again, while in Hawaii I liked to use them on our big tables. We could put four 4' X 8" tables side by side and end to end. I just did an inventory of my 1:4800s. KREIGSMARINE --------- ROYAL NAVY BB===== 2 ----------------------- 12 BC===== 5 ------------------------ 5 AC===== 5 ------------------------ 0 CA===== 5 ------------------------ 6 CL===== 5 ----------------------- 21 DD==== 27 ----------------------- 50 MERCH==0 ----------------------- 12 So today I submitted an order to CinC for four more Allies Group so I can get a nice Arctic Convoy scenario worked up. One of the things I would like to see is perhaps some battle specific sets such as the 15th Cruiser Sqdn vs the Littoria in the Med. As is you have to buy a lot of BCs to get three Dido's. The 4" gun ared L's would make a nice addition too, especially for escort to Ark Royal. Maybe do a Dutch Fleet pack with the CLs and DD's, I do like the Issac Sweers and Jacob Van Heemskerk(as AA cruiser). Gp 1: De Ruyter, Java, Tromp, 2 Van Ghent, 2 Bankert. Gp 2: Sumutra, Jacob van Heemskerk, Issak Sweers (both as designed and as completed by British), 2 Van Ghent, 2 Bankert. I would also like to see troop transports; large liners, smaller passenger ships and converted types. Last Edited CBW on 5-Jan-2004 11:01 AM
Agent Orange 3 posts Jan 06, 2004 1:51 AM	I would like to join the fray and offer up my two cents worth about what I would consider to be an ideal mixture of new 1:4800 sets. I concur with most of the earlier posts in so much that my sets focus on European waters, mainly because it offers the greatest number of potential clashes. For example a Fraco - Italian conflict could be as interesting as a British v German/ French /Italian punch up. In my ideal world a grand European collection would consist of 4801, 3x4802, 2x4803, 4804, 4805, 4806 and as many 4807 as possible. To this minor assembly I would like to add another 60 minatures. (We are talking in terms of idealism after all ;-) ). I propose that a new German pack be produced with the Lutzow featuring a pole control top and therefore differing from the square tower on the existing Graf Spee. 1 Bismarck 1 Lutzow 1 Hipper 1 Leipzig 1 Nurnberg 1 Z1 - Z22 2 Wolfe / Mowe 3 T1 - T21 Against these I would assemble 2 sets of the following 1 Barham / Malaya 1 Courageous 1 Colossus 1 Gloucester 1 Dido 2 A - I class 2 O Class 2 S - Cr Classes 1 Valiant / QE 1 Illustrious 1 Devonshire 1 Caledon / Ceres / Carlisle 1 Dido 2 A - I class 2 P Class 2 S - Cr Classes and one each of the following 1 Warspite 1 Eagle 1 Hermes 1 Exeter 1 Sydney 2 A - I class 2 J, K, N class 2 O Class 1 Furious 1 Ark Royal 1 York 1 Sydney 1 Southampton 2 A - I class 2 Tribal class 2 P Class As far as the Royal Italian Navy is concerned I largely agree with Lou, viz two set of 1 Litttorio 1 Zara 1 Giussano 1 Abruzzi 1 Capitani Romani 3 Soldati I 1 Soldati II 2 Navigatori and two sets of 1 Cavour 1 Dulio 1 Trento 1 Montecuccoli 1 D'Aosta 2 Maestrale / Oriani 1 Soldati I 3 Navigatori and one set of 1 Bolzano 1 Zara 2 Giussano 1 Cardorna 2 Freccia / Folgore 2 Navigatori 3 Orsa / Ciclone I would arrange the French Navy in four sets 2 Bretange 1 Dunkerque 1 Suffren 1 Duquay-Trouain 1 Jeanne D'Arc 2 Guepard / Aigle / Vauguelin 2 Fantasque 2 Bourrasque / L'Adroit 2 Courbet 1 Richelieu 1 Suffren 1 Emile Bertin 2 Fantasque 2 Bourrasque / L'Adroit 2 Le Hardi 1 Courbet 1 Lorraine 1 Dunkerque 1 Duquesne 1 Duquay-Trouain 1 Gallissonierre 2 Chacal 2 Guepard / Aigle / Vauguelin 2 Mogador 1 Richelieu 1 Bearn 1 Duquesne 1 Algerie 1 Gallissonierre 2 Chacal 2 Guepard / Aigle / Vauguelin 2 Le Hardi With twelve new sets it would be possible to represent practically all of the major fleet units in the European theatre. I concede that sixty new minatures is a lot to ask for, however is there any way that the readers of this list can assist C in C in their development? Humble regards Paul Orange Last Edited Agent Orange on 6-Jan-2004 1:55 AM
Aethulred 3 posts Jan 10, 2004 5:20 PM	Understanding that Randy is doing yeoman work, and that the Tank Boys pay the rent, Which 1/4800 ships are being worked on, if I may ask? I'm about to get into this on the basis of you "Continuing the series"... everyone I have mentioned it to, feels it would be great if you can maintain the quality and offer ship groups similar to what you have now, at a price that doesn't go too high...everyone knows you can't keep the new ones at $7 a group, but could you keep the groups to around $10-12 ?. A similar offering from "Heritage 1/6000" is quite pricey, so you have two licks on them if you can do it...price and quality. I priced the cost of the ships to fight off Norway in WW 2 and in 1/6000 it's well over $100 ... like $130+... you have most of it for $50. If you can keep it at under $14 a group, I think you can take their business away. My 2 cents ... I am ready to put my money where my mouth is (figuratively) just waitig on your e-mail in answer to mine. Jim O'Neil
Aethulred 4 posts Jan 27, 2004 7:41 AM	I note that LEIPZIG, NURNBURG and EMDEN are missing from the WW 2 German sets...historically they were all out of combat service for various reasons, but it would be nice to have the already weak German Navy at full strength. How hard would they be to gin up from existing KOLN masters ? NURNBURG and LEIPZIG are fairly close designs to the three Ks...EMDEN is probably going to be a one off... maybe not worth the time/effort. Last Edited Aethulred on 27-Jan-2004 7:43 AM
Anonymous Guest Feb 01, 2004 7:49 AM	As much as I like the "packs" idea, I would still like to be able to buy some of your 1/4800 ships "one by one" so as to be able to fill-in some battle lists and complete some classes. Especially some carriers. Robert in Toronto
Aethulred 5 posts Feb 05, 2004 9:16 AM	Is there anything we customers can do to facilitate the release of new ships?
Agent Orange 4 posts Mar 07, 2004 11:43 PM	What can we your loyal fans do to help in the development of new miniatures? In my experience of scratch building rather crude models to expand my fleet, the single most significant factor has always been the obtaining reasonable line drawings. Many do not give a very good indication of the nature of platforms and other features that make a hull distinctive. I am certain that the readers of this thread are a rich resource of ships drawings that they could make available (copyright considered) to CinC, would this help? If so which fleets would you target first? The second thing we can offer is our time, I for one would love to be able to make prototypes, could we come to an arrangement?
Pfc - C in C 41 posts Mar 08, 2004 2:47 PM	Thanks for the ideas.. certainly the toughest part of doing any design is the sourcing of good accurate information about the prototype in question. Randy has an extensive library of books about ships and he refers to them often when trying to work out discrepencies. As for making an arrangement, we are always open to work from new designers. Typically, designs are either produced on a royalty basis, or purchased outright by C in C from the designer. Please contact us if you'd like to work with C in C as a designer, we'll be happy to discuss the options available. Brad Odegard - Web Guy
Aethulred 15 posts Oct 26, 2004 8:53 AM	Randy & Brad, Nag warning Back about Nov 2003 you said there were a few more 1/4800's approaching completion (Half done or so). Any Progress ? I was looking to run a RIVER PLATTE action, but there is no HMS EXETER. Her sister YORK, differed only slightly by having a slightly taller, narrower superstructure and her funnels swept back a little. HMS EXETER is also useful for the JAVA SEA battles, should we get there. End Nag Jim O'Neil
SecretAgentMan 8 posts Oct 26, 2004 10:36 AM	I'd really like to see some Japanese and Russian ships!
Don Guest Nov 18, 2004 7:57 PM	Randy: I talked to you at Historicon 2003 about the 4800's and showed you there is a market for them so it's been over a year and could you give us and update. Our wargamers use 6000 and when they saw your 4800's they wanted more. I also had talked with the designer of the 6000 from England at one of the conventions and he was very impressed. I've been doing naval wargames for over 30 years and nobody comes close to your 4800's especially in detail. I told you at historicon that I would use your ships and since you have some Japanese and American ships done why don't you release them It would be a beginning and the market is open. Just think GQ can be played in Centimeters (Range etc.)and you could revise GQ with a new GQ3 for 4800's Don
Aethulred 17 posts Nov 19, 2004 7:25 AM	I concur. The new GQ 3 is supposed to be near release (first half of 2005?) and this is a much better scale than 1:6000 ... especially for us old blind guys. My ability to kit bash is not what it used to be, and any new ships would be much appreciated. The Netherlands East Indies in 1942 is my current interest ... small, already have the British Ships... anything you can put out...even as singles, would be a big plus, if for no other reason than to show more are coming. Jim O'Neil
Don Guest Nov 19, 2004 6:43 PM	Jim I noticed at the gaming conventions two things: the scales are getting larger or going smaller.1/20- 1/32 or 6mm - 15mm and 6000, 2400-1200 What I tried to tell Randy was the market is flooded with 2400 CINC/GHQ/Superior/panzerships/recent is Viking Forge ( WWW.thevikingforge.com- nice minitures with predreadnought/WW1/ WW11 and modern? ) and at least one overseas company).The ventors carry mostly GHQ and most of the games use GHQ and believe it or not panzerships or 6000. I've play tested a new set of rules during the last two conventions this year that GHQ may be looking at so here is the problem unless CINC gets exposure so people can see the ships (something no one else has 4800 in detail) they will continue to buy other lines. CINC has the edge they already have some and GHQ and others would have to start from scatch, I believe in the 4800's and thats why I told Randy I would play some naval wargaming at the conventions using 4800's. I'm retired CG Chief and over the last 30 years been in many wargaming groups including HI, MA,MD,ME,NJ,NH,TN,VA ETC. and I was very happy to see for the last several years naval wargames coming back in all periods. Timing is everything so Randy needs to strike hard and fast while the market is wide open. Gamers are looking for something new just look at the Pirates of the Spanish Main the storers are sell out and someone at the covention made islands in 3D ( could be used in 4800 hint hint). Don
Aethulred 18 posts Nov 20, 2004 8:20 AM	Don, I seem to have just lost the whole message I typed ...aggravating. I have a large collection of 1/2400 models from all the providers you mention. I also note the slow shift away from 1/2400, as GHQ is the '400 pound gorilla' provider and they are getting very pricey. CinC is much better as a value, but not as widely carried because of it's on and off staus as a business. ALNAVCO has totally dropped 1/2400, and is just selling off what it has and can mold with existing molds...no new ships coming though. 1/6000 is growing as it is cheaper and the selection is really large, including many "what-if" ships. But the models are so-o small... I can't really make them out, let alone paint them. They too, are pricey, as if you buy the same number of ships you'd get in a 1/4800 pack, you will pay $15+. If Randy can keep the cost per pack to around $10 or less, he will beat the dickins out of them. His models look better and offer a better value if he can produce a steady flow. You imply he has some made up... I don't know, but if he does, I hope he starts releasing them, so folks know it's not a dead line... don't need whole sets, just a steady supply of something new every month or two. If Randy is holding back in order to release a whole fleet or set... I encourage him to change his mind and releae as available, even if the price has to be higher until he can make a ship pack to save on his costs...put the get it now for more, or wait and save later sign right up front. I understood that finding sculptors was his problem...and I am no help there. CG Chief ? Commanding General ? Jim Last Edited Aethulred on 20-Nov-2004 8:26 AM
Mobius 10 posts Nov 20, 2004 1:12 PM	I think the 1/4800 scale is great. They are more closely matched with the game scales that we use which I think is 1/10,000 or 1/5,000. I have seen the 1/6000 ships but I can't make them out very well. The destoyers look like slivers. The thing is we are getting tired of playing sink the Bismark scenario over and over again and wish some US and Japanese ships were out there.
Don Guest Nov 20, 2004 9:39 PM	Jim: CG stands for U.S. Coast Guard,Sorry Its a habit like SAR means Search and rescue not some medical problem to me. You can get a US New Orleans close look alike by using a 6000 British Renown, Its got three turrets and the conning tower stacks are close, take off the cranes aft of stack and if your up to it chop of the main gun barrels and use three very fine wires for each gun turrets, also you can use a cleveland class or a CL class cinc 6" turrets for Main gun turrets for Roma and other BB's, you might have to file them down but in 4800 scale it will be hard to tell. The 4800 King George V or Renown Conning Tower (Ct) makes for a Japanese Myoko class Ct and with some work an Atago class as well with some work use a 4800 German Prinz Eugen file down to deck level starting behind 2nd Gun Turret all the way to stack keeping stack looks just like the Japanese Stack with a little sanding/filing. File down aft of stack as needed and add the number 2 stack from the 4800 KGV then make or use another Gun Turret from another 4800 CA. Add detail if you can however it looks close and it's better than nothing.If you use KGV keep hull might be able to make the Caio Duilio or Conte Di Cayour BB class. Don
Aethulred 19 posts Nov 21, 2004 1:15 PM	Don, Sorry, I can't see well enough to do that kit bashing any more... never was very good at it. SAR to me would have been Synthetic Aperture Radar... I was Army... a Tanker who ended up in R&D of Intell systems (Go Figure)and thence in all sorts of Test and Evaluation. I do think Randy needsto start making stuff... folks seem to rapidly losing faith... in another6 months it may be too late. Jim
Anonymous Guest Nov 23, 2004 12:03 AM	I'd like to see U-Boats, as well as Italian ships first, in addition to any missing British and German WWII units. More merchants/tankers would be nice too, along with some escort ships for those convoy battles. Then we can discuss the Pacific theater.
Anonymous Guest Nov 30, 2004 8:27 AM	Just want to add one more voice to the crowd requesting more 1/4800 scale ships. Personally, I'd love to see WWI ships first, but will be happy with whatever new models C in C can produce. My credit card is waiting..... How many folks out there have the North Cape game and would use additional 1/4800 minis with it? Any chance C in C could reissue the game, or do another one on a different theater? John
Don Guest Nov 30, 2004 3:28 PM	John I have the North Cape game and WW1 would be nice. however I'm still waiting to hear from Randy or Brad with reguards to the 4800 scale and their intentions? DON
Aethulred 20 posts Dec 01, 2004 7:48 AM	I have not seen the North Cape Game. Could I get a copy/Xerox with out upsetting the Copyright laws? I use GENERAL QUARTERS for most of my Naval gaming, as it's fast and reasonably accurate for multiship actions, but tracking specific damage is possible. Jim
Aethulred 21 posts Dec 03, 2004 7:17 AM	Another thing that would be nice is a sea base for the 1:4800 ships. It could be almost standardized with a bow wave and a secondary wave that would be amidships for the large ships and almost astern for the little ones (moving faster)... it could be a two-hex shape or square or oval... but a small flat place to put a name and some Information would be nice. In fact the two hex shape might be broken in two to make small bases for the DDs while a large ship used both hexes. Jim Last Edited Aethulred on 3-Dec-2004 7:19 AM
Don Guest Dec 06, 2004 8:16 PM	Jim You might want to make your own bases with clear plastic .30 to .40 thickness the reason is very simple you don't have to paint them and what ever color blue you use for a game mat or board , the clear plastic ship base will show up the same color instead of having two different back grounds it's very hard to find the same color paint and you might have to play on other kinds of mats or boards. Recently I made a wargamer very upset when he saw my clear bases and like the way they blended in and was upset because he had just got done painting a lot of bases. Don
oceanway Guest Dec 28, 2004 8:11 AM	Hi Guys, Don't want to interfere with C+Cs future plans,but there is another line of 1/4800 ships.They are available from M.Y. Miniatures and they offer a very extensive line of WW2/WW1 types from all the major powers including Italian CVs.I am a !/3000 scale man and purchased several types in this scale years ago when Trafalgar Models had the line.I don't think they will compare with C+Cs quality but Mike Yarra (M.Y.) is redoing the molds and adding to the line.His web site is up and running,although I don't believe he accepts CCs yet,I believe he does accept Paypal. David-Yet another Jax.,FL C+C fan!
Don Guest Dec 31, 2004 5:36 PM	oceanway Thanks for the information. also I saw some 3000 scale models by fumiji on e-bay last month, I didn't know fumiji made them at one time but the 2000 scale was very nice.Like cinc they didn't complete the line. Don
Aethulred 26 posts Feb 01, 2005 7:23 AM	Just thought I'd keep this up and in view... even if we are not getting many answers. Jim
Norfolk 1 post Feb 03, 2005 9:49 PM	Brad, Randy, Any progress, here? Italians? Americans? Japanese? Incidentally, my LEYTE GULF NAVAL CHESS GAME boardgame got published in the Japanese language GAME JOURNAL. Beautiful graphics. Lou Coatney http://LCoat.tripod.com
Anonymous Guest Feb 28, 2005 4:58 PM	U-boats, S-Boats/E-Boats, and Italian ships are needed now. I'd also like to see more merchants/cargo vessels, and then move on to the Pacific Theater.
Grumpy Guest Mar 31, 2005 7:31 AM	This is being allowed to just fade...is there no feed back? Nothing positive that CinC can say?
Kaoschallenged 7 posts Apr 02, 2005 1:16 PM	I agree with everyone else. I recently aquired one of the British Fleet packs. I plan on buying the others too. I would love to see some of the other countries fleets being offered.
Mobius 17 posts Apr 10, 2005 7:34 PM	These are great model ships and are more in scale to table top ranges. My friend has had a bunch of these ships for at least 20 years. We just played a game of River Platte this weekend. But we didn't have an EXETER!.. Why are there two packs that have Graf Spee but none with the Exeter? And you only get 1 Ajax per pack. This is one of the few balanced naval battles and the ships for it are not available.
oceanway Guest Apr 14, 2005 10:34 AM	Hi Gents, I just got an order off to Mick at MY Minis.Mostly for 1/3000 scale that no one else does like Jean Bart in a hypo CV conversion as well as the conversions to CV of the liners Europa and Rex.But I also added G.Zepplin to my 1/4800 force and will be checking out Littorio, Enterprise,Iowa,and Aqula (as well as a dry dock).As a 1/3000 man,I'm used to giving up detail for depth of range (Soviet WW2 CVs...etc). Mick informed me due to the small size of the minis(and the weak $), he is reducing postage to %10.Don't expect C + C detail,but they may be just good enough! David Hodge Jax., Fl.
Anonymous Guest Jun 11, 2005 11:58 PM	ANY progress with new 1/4800s? Lou Coatney
Iachino 1 post Jan 15, 2007 9:39 PM	Isn't the name Hoffa supposed to be Italian, after all? Randy! ANY progress on the 4800s? Lou (Coatney)
Iachino 7 posts Aug 10, 2011 5:09 AM	More discussion about 4800s on the 1:4800 and NavWarGames Yahoo discussion groups: Byron, Everyone is still wowed by the old CinC 1:4800s. And Randy and CinC are still going, actually: http://www.pfc-cinc.com/front_page.html And we have repeatedly requested that CinC does more 1:4800s, at least for the Italians and the Queen Elizabeth class battleships. (I assume Randy is Italian-American, after all.) However, doing the model masters is at least as much work as for 1:2400s. Even when our eyes were younger, we could barely see all the detail - Randy apparently worked with a magnifying glass. And he had considered doing 1:4800s for the Pacific and then reconsidered, apparently. When I was back in Juneau Alaska, one of our wargamers was named Jim Miller. Jim came from the Twin Cities, and one day came back from vacation and gleefully showed off to me a 1:4800 Japanese heavy cruiser MASTER - Atago? - Randy had just given away to him. Once, when CinC was moving next door, the COLLEGE STUDENT they had moving the MASTER MODELS FILING CABINET tipped it over, of course, and everything fell out and got mixed up if not badly damaged. Then Randy had a traumatic family breakup. The basic hesitation to do 1:4800 sets seems to be that each ship requires as much time and effort if not more, but they will lose profit when the ships are (necessarily) sold as a set for less than the individual 1:2400s. On the other hand, is there still a 1:2400 market? I don't think so. For World Wars 1 and 2, the 24s seem too big for the tabletop and too small for the floor. 1:3600s or, better, quality CinC 1:4800s for the tabletop and 1:1200 or larger for the floor are far better in my experience. (The 6000s are just too small. However, for modern ship task forces only being displayed 24s may still be alright, since the ranges are so extreme that the opposing task forces might be displayed separately anyway.) So yes, I think CinC really missed the boat, discontinuing its 4800s. It's like Italeri coming out with the 1:720 Hood and German pocket battleships (and some modern U.S. carriers) and not doing their own WW2 Italian warships (and a few of their oponents'. Again, Trumpeter has just come out with Roma at 1:700! ... but no cruisers yet.) *** Now Byron, why isn't NavWarGames accessible to the general public, like the 1:4800 Yahoo group is? It would raise considerable interest in naval wargaming generally and gain us more members. Lou Coatney, ELCOAT@Hotmail.com Skarerasen 16, Apt 1107 1473 Loerenskog, Norway 47-45765765 http://LCoat.tripod.com/index.htm http://www.coatneyhistory.com (Free games, cardstock model ship plans, etc.) --- On Wed, 8/10/11, Byron Angel wrote: From: Byron Angel Subject: RE: [NavWarGames] New 3D do it yourself computer technology for 1:6000 and CinC missing the boat on 4800s To: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 5:35 AM I was a big fan of CiC back in the day - a high quality product at reasonable prices. I too thought that 1:4800 scale was a brilliant step. Unfortunately, as I understand the myth and lore, CiC fell upon some difficult times with a lot of internal wrangling within the company which ultimately led to its demise. I always wondered what happended to Randy Hoffa. He was a good guy. Byron _____ From: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lou Coatney Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 5:51 AM To: NavWarGames@yahoogroups.com Subject: [NavWarGames] New 3D do it yourself computer technology for 1:6000 and CinC missing the boat on 4800s Look at the Shapeways links via the 1-4800 group which can be read by anyone. AMAZING. Why isn't NavWarGames open to the general public too? Lou --- In 1-4800thNavalWargaming@yahoogroups.com , G Kettler wrote: > > Dale, > > Market for this? Lack of a crafter? Internal dispute? Matters not, Good start then nothing. I agree with you that CinC missed the boat by not being THE micro scale supplier of choice. > If they had released more ships, even gradually over the years, we would not have seen 1/6000 at all. Right, I think we agree here. Never would have been 1/6000, and CinC would have been king of large scale naval war gaming. Huge opportunity missed. No doubt whatsoever. More comments below. > The past is the past. Can't fix that. Moving forward here, My point about crafters, certainly more than two out there. But the answer still is not a significant number no matter how you slice the onion. Of the few people that can do this, who is willing to take the time to make the originals? > Fair enough for now, but have you seen the posts over in the 1/6000 Yahoo group. Check these recent threads out: games.groups.yahoo.com/group/1_6000_Scale_Naval_Wargaming/message/108 games.groups.yahoo.com/group/1_6000_Scale_Naval_Wargaming/message/117 Follow the links in the posts to the cool pictures! That Yahoo 1/6000 group, unlike our 1/4800 Yahoo group, is public viewable for the messages, so you can read all the group messages without having to join the group. The 1/6000 posts are about using the new 3D printing technology that is becoming widely available, much of it is in the public domain, with internet tutorials and plans for creating your own cloning machine. All you need is a 3D CAD model and you can print out your ships one 200 micron layer at a time. 200 micron printing gives a slightly grainy model for 1/6000, but sand paper will fix that. 100 micron 3D printing is now becoming available and 50 micron printing is currently finalizing. 50 micron would be better than us, mate, artists or not. Machine made machine parts... The new revolution. In fact it may even threaten companies who do not respond to peoples repeated requests for product. By the way, one of the 1/6000 pics are of a modern navy combat group with CV, SSBN, and CAs, and another one is of a 16 German tanker printout. Someone submitted the CAD models to a commercial 3D printing company and now anyone can print out the ships for less than $10 for each set, because they do it as shareable CAD plans. More comments below. > I do know people that can cast when I have time to make masters. Ya never know, I could make a few then CinC might get itchy..... > The ones I worked on a few years back are now sub-standard for me. Actually, I'd love to see more of your work, mate! And I have big plans, myself. :-) > Let's get some large pics of Don's stuff and some CinC stuff posted as well as any others out there > Right, I'm working on the 8 ships he sent me already. As I previously posted I bought heaps of paints, etc to get me going. I will post high res pics as soon as I finish them. ;-) Regards, Dale Last Edited on 10-Aug-2011 5:12 AM