Anonymous
Guest
Nov 22, 2003
10:34 AM
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CinC's 1/4800s are unique to the hobby:
exquisitely -- indeed, microscopically
-- detailed and ideal for tabletop play.
The Hallmark 1/6000s are junk by comparison
... especially with their "bases."
CinC has this market CORNERED. WHY aren't
you expanding it?
We need the Italians -- Hoffa *is* Italian,
isn't it?? :-) -- to accompany the Germans
and British, and more British -- specifically,
the WARSPITE variants, YORK, EXETER, etc.
Then, there is always the Pacific. I'm still
dying of envy because Randy gave Jim Xxxx
(from back in Juneau, Alaska) a test-shoot
1/4800 Japanese heavy cruiser! :-I :-)
Come ON, guys. Give your REAL market what we
want! :-)
Lou Coatney, Macomb, Illinois
http://LCoat.tripod.com
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Maserati
1 post
Nov 22, 2003
12:03 PM
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I agree with the Guest comment. I'm prepared to buy C-in-C's Italian, American and Japanese in 1:4800 as they become available.
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Pfc - C in C
36 posts
Nov 22, 2003
1:39 PM
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Hi all, Brad here:
We're very aware of the desire for more 1:4800 ships. Randy actually has a couple of partially completed units in mid-sculpt. Once the "rebuilding" of the existing inventory molds is completed, he should have more time to spend on getting new units done. I feel like I've been saying "wait, be patient" forever, but it's really true. We've made great progress in the last 10 months getting a significant number of new molds made and many items returned to stock. Randy was rather amazed at the condition he found many of the molds in after having his employees cast for several years as he just made new items. It turns out they were not pulling bad ones out to be remade, rather just muddling through as best they could.
Remember, right now C in C is essentially a 1.5 person company as I only do the online stuff as an evening gig. Randy handles all the production, packaging and mold-making right now, so its a big job for just one guy. If things continue according to plan, we'll be putting someone on to do the casting production which will free up Randy to concentrate on more design work.
Brad
Last Edited by Pfc - C in C on Nov 22, 2003 1:42 PM
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brian_gs
2 posts
Nov 22, 2003
11:22 PM
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Just to let you know...we'll be here to start buying them when you get around to them. I know you're a small operation, but I want you to know you've already got a customer when you get around to it!!
To throw in my personal wants: I'd love to see some WWII Pacific....but Modern...oooh...if you came out with 1/4800 modern I'd probably have to sign over several paychecks!!
Good Luck & Best Wishes!
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Anonymous
Guest
Nov 23, 2003
3:33 AM
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In Jan03 I posted the following on NavWarGames:
One really neat thing about the CinC 1:4800s
is that they sell them in balanced task
force sets: you don't have to spend
an arm and a leg just to get multiple
classes.
If Randy and Brad are doing new sets, we
might recommend the classes to go into
them.
As much as people may want the Pacific,
I'd suggest that (after finishing the
Pacific sets already started) CinC do
the Italians ... and another British
... since they've already got most of
the Royal Navy, anway, and I'd like to
suggest 3 Italian and 1 British sets:
1. Littorio BB, Zara CA, D'Abruzzi CL (10-6"),
Capitani DL (8-5.3"), 2 Navigatori DDs,
3 Soldati I DDs, 1 Soldati II DD
2. Duilio B, Cesare B, Trieste CA, Savoia CL,
Attendolo CL, 3 Navigatori DDs, 2 Alfieri DDs,
1 Soldati 1 DD
3. Pola CA, Bolzano CA, San Giorgio CA, Cadorna CL,
2 Barbiano CLs, 2 Navigatori DDs, 2 Dardo DDs,
3 Spica TBs
4. Barham B, Q. Elizabeth B, Warspite B, York CA,
Dido CLAA, SYDNEY CL, 3 E-class DD, 2 I-class DD]
Buying 2 of each of the first 2 sets would give
miniaturists almost the entire Italian fleet.
Lou Coatney
http://LCoat.tripod.com
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Pfc - C in C
37 posts
Nov 23, 2003
9:03 AM
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Lou:
I'll pass that list onto Randy for a bit of reference.. perhaps it can guide his decisions on what to attack next.
Brad
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Anonymous
Guest
Nov 24, 2003
12:41 AM
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Thanks, Brad. Regards to Randy. :-)
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Aethulred
2 posts
Dec 22, 2003
8:52 AM
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I think before startying out on the Italians, we need HMS ARK ROYAL and HMS GLORIOUS to do the early battles off Norway. Both also spent time in the Med, so they are somewhat dual purpose. The other RN and Italian ships would also be welcome, and I concur with Lou, that by starting there and expanding with ships usable in more than one theater, this could be a Great Line. The USN contributed a few ships to the North Atlantic and the Med, giving a small start before undertaking the ships of the Pacific.
Jim O'Neil
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CBW
2 posts
Dec 23, 2003
12:39 AM
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The last items that I have bought from CinC were a set of 1:4800's for a friend. He had some of the 1:3000 and 1:6000 stuff and was thrilled. That was back when things were going bad. He was really looking forward to new stuff from CinC in the scale but alass he had a change in fortune. His new wife said it was between his hobbies and diapers, his choice. Xourse she also said she would use his shirts as intrims if need be. I have multiple sets of each except as, again, while in Hawaii I liked to use them on our big tables. We could put four 4' X 8" tables side by side and end to end.
I just did an inventory of my 1:4800s.
KREIGSMARINE --------- ROYAL NAVY
BB===== 2 ----------------------- 12
BC===== 5 ------------------------ 5
AC===== 5 ------------------------ 0
CA===== 5 ------------------------ 6
CL===== 5 ----------------------- 21
DD==== 27 ----------------------- 50
MERCH==0 ----------------------- 12
So today I submitted an order to CinC for four more Allies Group so I can get a nice Arctic Convoy scenario worked up.
One of the things I would like to see is perhaps some battle specific sets such as the 15th Cruiser Sqdn vs the Littoria in the Med. As is you have to buy a lot of BCs to get three Dido's. The 4" gun ared L's would make a nice addition too, especially for escort to Ark Royal. Maybe do a Dutch Fleet pack with the CLs and DD's, I do like the Issac Sweers and Jacob Van Heemskerk(as AA cruiser).
Gp 1: De Ruyter, Java, Tromp, 2 Van Ghent, 2 Bankert.
Gp 2: Sumutra, Jacob van Heemskerk, Issak Sweers (both as designed and as completed by British), 2 Van Ghent, 2 Bankert. I would also like to see troop transports; large liners, smaller passenger ships and converted types.
Last Edited by CBW on Jan 05, 2004 11:01 AM
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Agent Orange
3 posts
Jan 06, 2004
1:51 AM
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I would like to join the fray and offer up my two cents worth about what I would consider to be an ideal mixture of new 1:4800 sets. I concur with most of the earlier posts in so much that my sets focus on European waters, mainly because it offers the greatest number of potential clashes. For example a Fraco - Italian conflict could be as interesting as a British v German/ French /Italian punch up.
In my ideal world a grand European collection would consist of 4801, 3x4802, 2x4803, 4804, 4805, 4806 and as many 4807 as possible. To this minor assembly I would like to add another 60 minatures. (We are talking in terms of idealism after all ;-) ).
I propose that a new German pack be produced with the Lutzow featuring a pole control top and therefore differing from the square tower on the existing Graf Spee.
1 Bismarck
1 Lutzow
1 Hipper
1 Leipzig
1 Nurnberg
1 Z1 - Z22
2 Wolfe / Mowe
3 T1 - T21
Against these I would assemble 2 sets of the following
1 Barham / Malaya
1 Courageous
1 Colossus
1 Gloucester
1 Dido
2 A - I class
2 O Class
2 S - Cr Classes
1 Valiant / QE
1 Illustrious
1 Devonshire
1 Caledon / Ceres / Carlisle
1 Dido
2 A - I class
2 P Class
2 S - Cr Classes
and one each of the following
1 Warspite
1 Eagle
1 Hermes
1 Exeter
1 Sydney
2 A - I class
2 J, K, N class
2 O Class
1 Furious
1 Ark Royal
1 York
1 Sydney
1 Southampton
2 A - I class
2 Tribal class
2 P Class
As far as the Royal Italian Navy is concerned I largely agree with Lou, viz two set of
1 Litttorio
1 Zara
1 Giussano
1 Abruzzi
1 Capitani Romani
3 Soldati I
1 Soldati II
2 Navigatori
and two sets of
1 Cavour
1 Dulio
1 Trento
1 Montecuccoli
1 D'Aosta
2 Maestrale / Oriani
1 Soldati I
3 Navigatori
and one set of
1 Bolzano
1 Zara
2 Giussano
1 Cardorna
2 Freccia / Folgore
2 Navigatori
3 Orsa / Ciclone
I would arrange the French Navy in four sets
2 Bretange
1 Dunkerque
1 Suffren
1 Duquay-Trouain
1 Jeanne D'Arc
2 Guepard / Aigle / Vauguelin
2 Fantasque
2 Bourrasque / L'Adroit
2 Courbet
1 Richelieu
1 Suffren
1 Emile Bertin
2 Fantasque
2 Bourrasque / L'Adroit
2 Le Hardi
1 Courbet
1 Lorraine
1 Dunkerque
1 Duquesne
1 Duquay-Trouain
1 Gallissonierre
2 Chacal
2 Guepard / Aigle / Vauguelin
2 Mogador
1 Richelieu
1 Bearn
1 Duquesne
1 Algerie
1 Gallissonierre
2 Chacal
2 Guepard / Aigle / Vauguelin
2 Le Hardi
With twelve new sets it would be possible to represent practically all of the major fleet units in the European theatre. I concede that sixty new minatures is a lot to ask for, however is there any way that the readers of this list can assist C in C in their development?
Humble regards
Paul Orange
Last Edited by Agent Orange on Jan 06, 2004 1:55 AM
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Aethulred
3 posts
Jan 10, 2004
5:20 PM
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Understanding that Randy is doing yeoman work, and that the Tank Boys pay the rent, Which 1/4800 ships are being worked on, if I may ask?
I'm about to get into this on the basis of you "Continuing the series"... everyone I have mentioned it to, feels it would be great if you can maintain the quality and offer ship groups similar to what you have now, at a price that doesn't go too high...everyone knows you can't keep the new ones at $7 a group, but could you keep the groups to around $10-12 ?. A similar offering from "Heritage 1/6000" is quite pricey, so you have two licks on them if you can do it...price and quality. I priced the cost of the ships to fight off Norway in WW 2 and in 1/6000 it's well over $100 ... like $130+... you have most of it for $50. If you can keep it at under $14 a group, I think you can take their business away. My 2 cents ... I am ready to put my money where my mouth is (figuratively) just waitig on your e-mail in answer to mine.
Jim O'Neil
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Aethulred
4 posts
Jan 27, 2004
7:41 AM
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I note that LEIPZIG, NURNBURG and EMDEN are missing from the WW 2 German sets...historically they were all out of combat service for various reasons, but it would be nice to have the already weak German Navy at full strength. How hard would they be to gin up from existing KOLN masters ? NURNBURG and LEIPZIG are fairly close designs to the three Ks...EMDEN is probably going to be a one off... maybe not worth the time/effort.
Last Edited by Aethulred on Jan 27, 2004 7:43 AM
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Anonymous
Guest
Feb 01, 2004
7:49 AM
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As much as I like the "packs" idea, I would still like to be able to buy some of your 1/4800 ships "one by one" so as to be able to fill-in some battle lists and complete some classes. Especially some carriers. Robert in Toronto
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Aethulred
5 posts
Feb 05, 2004
9:16 AM
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Is there anything we customers can do to facilitate the release of new ships?
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Agent Orange
4 posts
Mar 07, 2004
11:43 PM
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What can we your loyal fans do to help in the development of new miniatures?
In my experience of scratch building rather crude models to expand my fleet, the single most significant factor has always been the obtaining reasonable line drawings. Many do not give a very good indication of the nature of platforms and other features that make a hull distinctive. I am certain that the readers of this thread are a rich resource of ships drawings that they could make available (copyright considered) to CinC, would this help? If so which fleets would you target first?
The second thing we can offer is our time, I for one would love to be able to make prototypes, could we come to an arrangement?
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Pfc - C in C
41 posts
Mar 08, 2004
2:47 PM
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Thanks for the ideas.. certainly the toughest part of doing any design is the sourcing of good accurate information about the prototype in question. Randy has an extensive library of books about ships and he refers to them often when trying to work out discrepencies.
As for making an arrangement, we are always open to work from new designers. Typically, designs are either produced on a royalty basis, or purchased outright by C in C from the designer. Please contact us if you'd like to work with C in C as a designer, we'll be happy to discuss the options available.
Brad Odegard - Web Guy
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Aethulred
15 posts
Oct 26, 2004
8:53 AM
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Randy & Brad,
** Nag warning **
Back about Nov 2003 you said there were a few more 1/4800's approaching completion (Half done or so). Any Progress ?
I was looking to run a RIVER PLATTE action, but there is no HMS EXETER. Her sister YORK, differed only slightly by having a slightly taller, narrower superstructure and her funnels swept back a little. HMS EXETER is also useful for the JAVA SEA battles, should we get there.
** End Nag **
Jim O'Neil
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SecretAgentMan
8 posts
Oct 26, 2004
10:36 AM
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I'd really like to see some Japanese and Russian ships!
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Don
Guest
Nov 18, 2004
7:57 PM
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Randy: I talked to you at Historicon 2003 about the 4800's and showed you there is a market for them so it's been over a year and could you give us and update. Our wargamers use 6000 and when they saw your 4800's they wanted more. I also had talked with the designer of the 6000 from England at one of the conventions and he was very impressed. I've been doing naval wargames for over 30 years and nobody comes close to your 4800's especially in detail. I told you at historicon that I would use your ships and since you have some Japanese and American ships done why don't you release them It would be a beginning and the market is open. Just think GQ can be played in Centimeters (Range etc.)and you could revise GQ with a new GQ3 for 4800's
Don
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Aethulred
17 posts
Nov 19, 2004
7:25 AM
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I concur. The new GQ 3 is supposed to be near release (first half of 2005?) and this is a much better scale than 1:6000 ... especially for us old blind guys. My ability to kit bash is not what it used to be, and any new ships would be much appreciated. The Netherlands East Indies in 1942 is my current interest ... small, already have the British Ships... anything you can put out...even as singles, would be a big plus, if for no other reason than to show more are coming.
Jim O'Neil
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Don
Guest
Nov 19, 2004
6:43 PM
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Jim
I noticed at the gaming conventions two things: the scales are getting larger or going smaller.1/20- 1/32 or 6mm - 15mm and 6000, 2400-1200
What I tried to tell Randy was the market is flooded with 2400 CINC/GHQ/Superior/panzerships/recent is Viking Forge ( WWW.thevikingforge.com- nice minitures with predreadnought/WW1/ WW11 and modern? ) and at least one overseas company).The ventors carry mostly GHQ and most of the games use GHQ and believe it or not panzerships or 6000. I've play tested a new set of rules during the last two conventions this year that GHQ may be looking at so here is the problem unless CINC gets exposure so people can see the ships (something no one else has 4800 in detail) they will continue to buy other lines. CINC has the edge they already have some and GHQ and others would have to start from scatch, I believe in the 4800's and thats why I told Randy I would play some naval wargaming at the conventions using 4800's. I'm retired CG Chief and over the last 30 years been in many wargaming groups including HI, MA,MD,ME,NJ,NH,TN,VA ETC. and I was very happy to see for the last several years naval wargames coming back in all periods. Timing is everything so Randy needs to strike hard and fast while the market is wide open.
Gamers are looking for something new just look at the Pirates of the Spanish Main the storers are sell out and someone at the covention made islands in 3D ( could be used in 4800 hint hint).
Don
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Aethulred
18 posts
Nov 20, 2004
8:20 AM
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Don,
I seem to have just lost the whole message I typed ...aggravating.
I have a large collection of 1/2400 models from all the providers you mention. I also note the slow shift away from 1/2400, as GHQ is the '400 pound gorilla' provider and they are getting very pricey. CinC is much better as a value, but not as widely carried because of it's on and off staus as a business. ALNAVCO has totally dropped 1/2400, and is just selling off what it has and can mold with existing molds...no new ships coming though.
1/6000 is growing as it is cheaper and the selection is really large, including many "what-if" ships. But the models are so-o small... I can't really make them out, let alone paint them. They too, are pricey, as if you buy the same number of ships you'd get in a 1/4800 pack, you will pay $15+. If Randy can keep the cost per pack to around $10 or less, he will beat the dickins out of them. His models look better and offer a better value *if* he can produce a steady flow. You imply he has some made up... I don't know, but if he does, I hope he starts releasing them, so folks know it's not a dead line... don't need whole sets, just a steady supply of something new every month or two. If Randy is holding back in order to release a whole fleet or set... I encourage him to change his mind and releae as available, even if the price has to be higher until he can make a ship pack to save on his costs...put the get it now for more, or wait and save later sign right up front.
I understood that finding sculptors was his problem...and I am no help there.
CG Chief ? Commanding General ?
Jim
Last Edited by Aethulred on Nov 20, 2004 8:26 AM
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Mobius
10 posts
Nov 20, 2004
1:12 PM
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I think the 1/4800 scale is great. They are more closely matched with the game scales that we use which I think is 1/10,000 or 1/5,000. I have seen the 1/6000 ships but I can't make them out very well. The destoyers look like slivers.
The thing is we are getting tired of playing sink the Bismark scenario over and over again and wish some US and Japanese ships were out there.
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Don
Guest
Nov 20, 2004
9:39 PM
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Jim:
CG stands for U.S. Coast Guard,Sorry Its a habit like SAR means Search and rescue not some medical problem to me.
You can get a US New Orleans close look alike by using a 6000 British Renown, Its got three turrets and the conning tower stacks are close, take off the cranes aft of stack and if your up to it chop of the main gun barrels and use three very fine wires for each gun turrets, also you can use a cleveland class or a CL class cinc 6" turrets for Main gun turrets for Roma and other BB's, you might have to file them down but in 4800 scale it will be hard to tell. The 4800 King George V or Renown Conning Tower (Ct) makes for a Japanese Myoko class Ct and with some work an Atago class as well with some work use a 4800 German Prinz Eugen file down to deck level starting behind 2nd Gun Turret all the way to stack
keeping stack looks just like the Japanese Stack with a little sanding/filing.
File down aft of stack as needed and add the number 2 stack from the 4800 KGV then make or use another Gun Turret from another 4800 CA. Add detail if you can however it looks close and it's better than nothing.If you use KGV keep hull might be able to make the Caio Duilio or Conte Di Cayour BB class. Don
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Aethulred
19 posts
Nov 21, 2004
1:15 PM
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Don,
Sorry, I can't see well enough to do that kit bashing any more... never was very good at it.
SAR to me would have been Synthetic Aperture Radar... I was Army... a Tanker who ended up in R&D of Intell systems (Go Figure)and thence in all sorts of Test and Evaluation.
I do think Randy needsto start making stuff... folks seem to rapidly losing faith... in another6 months it may be too late.
Jim
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Anonymous
Guest
Nov 23, 2004
12:03 AM
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I'd like to see U-Boats, as well as Italian ships first, in addition to any missing British and German WWII units.
More merchants/tankers would be nice too, along with some escort ships for those convoy battles.
Then we can discuss the Pacific theater.
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Anonymous
Guest
Nov 30, 2004
8:27 AM
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Just want to add one more voice to the crowd requesting more 1/4800 scale ships. Personally, I'd love to see WWI ships first, but will be happy with whatever new models C in C can produce. My credit card is waiting.....
How many folks out there have the North Cape game and would use additional 1/4800 minis with it? Any chance C in C could reissue the game, or do another one on a different theater?
John
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Don
Guest
Nov 30, 2004
3:28 PM
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John
I have the North Cape game and WW1 would be nice. however I'm still waiting to hear from Randy or Brad with reguards to the 4800 scale and their intentions?
DON
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Aethulred
20 posts
Dec 01, 2004
7:48 AM
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I have not seen the North Cape Game. Could I get a copy/Xerox with out upsetting the Copyright laws?
I use GENERAL QUARTERS for most of my Naval gaming, as it's fast and reasonably accurate for multiship actions, but tracking specific damage is possible.
Jim
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Aethulred
21 posts
Dec 03, 2004
7:17 AM
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Another thing that would be nice is a sea base for the 1:4800 ships. It could be almost standardized with a bow wave and a secondary wave that would be amidships for the large ships and almost astern for the little ones (moving faster)... it could be a two-hex shape or square or oval... but a small flat place to put a name and some Information would be nice.
In fact the two hex shape might be broken in two to make small bases for the DDs while a large ship used both hexes.
Jim
Last Edited by Aethulred on Dec 03, 2004 7:19 AM
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Don
Guest
Dec 06, 2004
8:16 PM
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Jim
You might want to make your own bases with clear plastic .30 to .40 thickness the reason is very simple you don't have to paint them and what ever color blue you use for a game mat or board , the clear plastic ship base will show up the same color instead of having two different back grounds it's very hard to find the same color paint and you might have to play on other kinds of mats or boards.
Recently I made a wargamer very upset when he saw my clear bases and like the way they blended in and was upset because he had just got done painting a lot of bases.
Don
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oceanway
Guest
Dec 28, 2004
8:11 AM
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Hi Guys,
Don't want to interfere with C+Cs
future plans,but there is another
line of 1/4800 ships.They are
available from M.Y. Miniatures and
they offer a very extensive line of
WW2/WW1 types from all the major
powers including Italian CVs.I am
a !/3000 scale man and purchased
several types in this scale years ago when Trafalgar Models had the
line.I don't think they will
compare with C+Cs quality but Mike
Yarra (M.Y.) is redoing the molds
and adding to the line.His web site
is up and running,although I don't
believe he accepts CCs yet,I believe
he does accept Paypal.
David-Yet another Jax.,FL C+C fan!
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Don
Guest
Dec 31, 2004
5:36 PM
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oceanway
Thanks for the information. also I saw some 3000 scale models by fumiji on e-bay last month, I didn't know fumiji made them at one time but the 2000 scale was very nice.Like cinc they didn't complete the line.
Don
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Aethulred
26 posts
Feb 01, 2005
7:23 AM
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Just thought I'd keep this up and in view... even if we are not getting many answers.
Jim
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Norfolk
1 post
Feb 03, 2005
9:49 PM
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Brad, Randy,
Any progress, here?
Italians? Americans? Japanese?
Incidentally, my LEYTE GULF NAVAL CHESS GAME boardgame got published in the Japanese language GAME JOURNAL. Beautiful graphics.
Lou Coatney
http://LCoat.tripod.com
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Anonymous
Guest
Feb 28, 2005
4:58 PM
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U-boats, S-Boats/E-Boats, and Italian ships are needed now.
I'd also like to see more merchants/cargo vessels, and then move on to the Pacific Theater.
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Grumpy
Guest
Mar 31, 2005
7:31 AM
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This is being allowed to just fade...is there no feed back? Nothing positive that CinC can say?
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Kaoschallenged
7 posts
Apr 02, 2005
1:16 PM
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I agree with everyone else. I recently aquired one of the British Fleet packs. I plan on buying the others too. I would love to see some of the other countries fleets being offered.
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Mobius
17 posts
Apr 10, 2005
7:34 PM
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These are great model ships and are more in scale to table top ranges. My friend has had a bunch of these ships for at least 20 years. We just played a game of River Platte this weekend. But we didn't have an EXETER!.. Why are there two packs that have Graf Spee but none with the Exeter? And you only get 1 Ajax per pack.
This is one of the few balanced naval battles and the ships for it are not available.
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oceanway
Guest
Apr 14, 2005
10:34 AM
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Hi Gents,
I just got an order off to Mick at
MY Minis.Mostly for 1/3000 scale
that no one else does like Jean
Bart in a hypo CV conversion as well
as the conversions to CV of the
liners Europa and Rex.But I also
added G.Zepplin to my 1/4800 force
and will be checking out Littorio,
Enterprise,Iowa,and Aqula (as well
as a dry dock).As a 1/3000 man,I'm
used to giving up detail for depth
of range (Soviet WW2 CVs...etc).
Mick informed me due to the small size of the minis(and the weak $),
he is reducing postage to %10.Don't
expect C + C detail,but they may be
just good enough!
David Hodge
Jax., Fl.
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Anonymous
Guest
Jun 11, 2005
11:58 PM
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ANY progress with new 1/4800s?
Lou Coatney
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Iachino
1 post
Jan 15, 2007
9:39 PM
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Isn't the name Hoffa supposed to be Italian, after all?
Randy! ANY progress on the 4800s?
Lou (Coatney)
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